Continued from DiscussCandidates
Vote against Bush. Vote for an America who is a good neighbor. See DiscussCandidates for background.
Issues of abortion, the environment, life style, etc., are important but are secondary to the issue of national leadership. The president has little power in bi-partisan domestic legislative issues except by his leadership and devotion to the will of the people. The key issue in this campaign, as neither candidate presents a compelling vision for the future of America is a choice between America as the bully of the world, who must be annihilated, or America as a good neighbor who stands by her principals of freedom self determination for all nations, not just our own elite, with all of her strength. While neither candidate exactly fits either viewpoint, Bush clearly postures America as an aggressor that acts without regard to the sovereign rights of other nations, America, right or wrong, without even the least respect for the consenting views of other nations, Kerry paints the picture of a principled America, that respects other national interests with the same respect that it demands. What Bush has accomplished is not necessarily that bad, it is also not good. We can thank him for ousting Saddam and now demand by our vote that America attain higher standards in the future and not sustain the politics that brought Saddam to power in the first place.
An interesting tidbit I just came across:
- Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
- David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
- Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
- Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
- Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
- Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
- John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
- Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
- Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
- Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
- Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
- Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
- Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
- Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
- Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
- Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
- Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
- Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
- Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
- Chuck Robb: Vietnam
- Howell Heflin: Silver Star
- George McGovern: Silver Star and DFC during WWII.
- Bill Clinton: Did not serve.
- Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
- John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
- Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
- Dick Cheney: did not serve.
- Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
- Tom Delay: did not serve.
- Roy Blunt: did not serve.
- Bill Frist: did not serve.
- Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
- Rick Santorum: did not serve.
- Trent Lott: did not serve.
- John Ashcroft: did not serve.
- Jeb Bush: did not serve.
- Karl Rove: did not serve.
- Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee."
- Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
- Vin Weber: did not serve.
- Richard Perle: did not serve.
- Douglas Feith: did not serve.
- Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
- Richard Shelby: did not serve.
- Jon Kyl: did not serve.
- Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
- Christopher Cox: did not serve.
- Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
- Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
- George W. Bush: See WikiPedia.
- Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
- B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
- Phil Gramm: did not serve.
- John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
- John M. McHugh: did not serve.
- JC Watts: did not serve.
- Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem"
- Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
- Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
- George Pataki: did not serve.
- Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
- John Engler: did not serve.
- Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
- Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
Less than 24 hours to go and I still don’t know how Kerry plans to cool Euro-Israeli frictions.
GregScarver, Commenting on your last post. Nice try to claim, “exhaust all peaceable avenues" and "go to war only when a clear and immediate danger exists," as liberal mantras. What makes a liberal any more likely to apply these reasoned criteria than a conservative?
JimScarver, a vote for Kerry is a vote against the future of Humanity. Kerry has stated that he doesn't beleive there is anything to find anywhere off earth, and that all space programs everywhere should stop. All that money and effort would be better spent here, on various domestic issues. When he is elected, he plans on cancelling all programs in NASA (Space Shuttle, ISS, Casini, Mars Rovers, Mars Explorers, New Horizons, Hubble, Webber, G-Probe, Moon Mars and Beyond, to name just a few). The only effort that NASA ever done that is worthwhile is basic aeronautic research, which it does quite well. He is going to therefore destroy most of NASA, and turn it into NAA (National Aeronatics Administrion), to research how to make jets, like his Leers, fly faster, quieter, safer, and more efficently.
The speech and documents showing that position has since disappeared from his web site. I believe that someone in his campaign noticed that telling Florida that you are cutting off one of its favorite pork barrels, NASA and Space Shuttle, is a 'Bad Thing'.
Sometimes, you got to join the caravan that is going in your general direction, even though you don't agree on the exact path the caravan master is taking it. Between a candidate that offers his support to getting Man off this blue marble, and one that thinks we should just stay and concentrate on the short term goal of making life better temporarily, I think it is a clear choice. But I understand that most voters will not be using a slightly different yardstick to measure a candidate's optimism for the future.
As for the rest... shakes head. I just cannot understand how anyone can justify supporting John Kerry, unless they are purely against Bush (that, I have 'zero' problem understanding). Frankly, Bush has kept us in well with our traditional allies, UK, Australia, Japan, Poland. France and Germany have never been staunch allies. As far as the Arab states goes, so long as we support Isreal, they will hate us. Only by abandoning Isreal (a position John Kerry has consistantly endorsed since he started campaigning in 2002) will we have a chance of having the moderate Arab states like us. That doesn't jive with me... you don't drop a friend or cancel your obligations just so you can then try to get in good with a group that hates you. In my observations of human life, when people do that, they still don't get in with the group they are trying (invariably, that group's respect for the appeasing person drops), but they also lose the friends they had. As countries operate on the level between second grade and fifth grade (7 to 12 year olds), I don't see how it would be any different to do that as a policy. Indeed, America has wronged several Arab states by doing just that in the past (dropping one to become friends with their enemy). And once you widen the list to include all the nations of the world, why, we've been just as nasty as the United Kingdom, France, and Spain during their rise and rule of the world (just to name a few of our contemporary allies). Historically speaking, almost all nations behave in that fashion... unfortunately. Only the SocietalLeadDog tends to be more noticed doing so, because it does so more often, and the Following Dogs pay it more attention.
As for Bush the Aggressor... yes, he is. His world view changed following 9/11. He says so. He says we have to get out there and get them before they get us. Very UsAndThem. But also, very true, I think. Bush has told us, that he came to understand that the President's number one job is to do his best to keep America safe. If that's wasting tons of money on even more ICBMs so that the USSR bankrupts itself trying to match us (for bragging rights... which is what happened), then that's what has to be done. If its invading other countries with small strike forces or large armies, then that's what must be done. Everything else is secondary. If you disagree with that... that the President's number one job is keeping Americans safe on American soil, or you disagree with how he thinks it must be done (pre-emptive invasion versus Iraq, multi-national negotiations versus North Korea, uniteratal negotitions versus China, etc etc), then of course you should be voting against Bush==== =-) Presidential elections are referendums for the incumbent. Which works out for John Kerry, as less then 25% of his own supporters actually support him (according to the Democratic National Conventions own polls). ====
So, StarPilot to JimScarver... which neighbors do we need to be nicer to? Remember, being nice means you are weak (in a 7-year old's/political world view). Remember, you have to be nice to those that are stronger then you to get what you want. Otherwise, the strong take what they want and don't have to worry about being nice. The beginnings of "Cool" always starts with the strong. They are "Cool" because they don't have to be nice. Watch human children. They are their society at its base. The pretty and the handsome don't become "Cool" until children's sexual appetite starts to awaken (@puberty). But the Strong will always be cool. Of course, the most hated children are usually the Cool kids... everyone is jealous. But no one tells them that to their face. Notice the corollary... America is "Cool" throughout the world. America is hated throughout the world.
Well, good luck. To you Kerry supporters, just remember, I'm in a deep, deep Bush state. It doesn't matter if I vote for Bush or Kerry. Or even vote. My state's electoral votes are for certain going to Bush, and that was known in February 2001 (if Bush decided to run). Indeed, the media and political junkies tell us that only 6 states matter... and that in those states, no issues matter. Not even the men themselves matter. It only matters if more Democrats show up at 4 of those 6 states... otherwise, Bush will be re-elected. Isn't that just nice to know? The fate of our nation rest in the hands of not the WE of America, in the hands of a mere 10,000... or if it rains in about 20 counties or not...
The fun and games of all the lawsuits and the uncovering of all the chancanery (for both the Democrats and Republicans) is going to be something else though. Should be the highest found and reported on in the history of modern media. Although I bet 2008 will top it... Not because there will be more of in 2008, but because we will have even more media out there to report on it. (Growth of Internet, more cable, etc etc etc).
Have fun==== Good luck! If you are in a deep, firm state of one of the two parties (Republican or Democrat), and don't want to vote, I'd suggest you go out and vote Independant or Libertarian. Every time you do, you add a step to us perhaps getting a 3rd option some time (see? I'm just an optimist!). If you are in one of those rare battlefied states... get your behind to the polls and vote! You are representing not only yourself, but many more similar minded people! Make your magnified voice HEARD in the WE of America!
-) (And no, Jim... this is not a "Smart" [[Smart Mob|]] at work. Politics is always about the CollectiveStupidity, not of the CollectiveIntelligence. But it does demonstrate how just a few nodes in a major network are the determiners of the final outcome... -) )
See you around==== ====
General Schwarzkopf backs Bush. And he ain't no chicken-hawk==== ====
Tomorrow we will elect our President. A duty and a right we have been privileged to execute for over 200 years. Under the Bush administrations resolve two more peoples of the worldwide community are able to choose their own destiny. It’s my belief this is a step in direction to a freer and safer world. A vote for Bush is a vote for these 50,000,000 people and the millions more that will demand their basic human rights. Kerry says our number one export is jobs. I contend America’s number one export is liberty.
Wrong==== Read your history books. ====
Gladly, but you kinda haveta give me a clue where to start, (year, quadrant of the globe, peoples.) I have recently been reading Ho Chi Minh’s autobiography. Useless for anything other than an exercise in speculation try and imagine how the world might be different today if, in 1918, the U.S. had answered his foremost plea and assisted in Vietnam’s liberation from France. Possibly no Vietnam War? No John Kerry? Are you suggesting the U.S. had no role in liberation of the peoples of Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Slovenia, Republic of Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina Armenia Azerbaijan Estonia Georgia Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Latvia Belarus Moldova Russia Tajikistan Turkmenistan Ukraine Uzbekistan Lithuania Afghanistan, Iraq.
Having serious objections with both candidates, I'm going to flip a coin in the voting booth==== ====
Vote for yourself instead. You can’t have any objections to that.
A vote for Bush is a Vote for World War Three. If we are to escape from this planet before it destroys itself we must delay World War Three as long as possible. Vote against Bush.
As long as the Isrealis insist on killing a Palistanian for every Isearli killed we should deny them support just as our civilized allies do. Support of an eye for an eye policies can only end in everybody dead. We have taught that lesson to the primative peoples of the world but don't seem to get the idea ourselves.
While abandoning Isreal is not desireable, we have to use our influence to promote civilized de-escalation of the hostilities there. We should support Isreal as they support us, but it should not be Iseal right or wrong anymore than America right or wrong. Without our principles we are just hypocrits.
Our role has, too often, not been to export freedom, it has been to export subversion which generally backfires and fails to promote our supposed ideals of freedom and self-determination. We have succeeded in stopping agressors by war as was necessary in world war two, but we have won peace only by exporting independence, commerce and hope.
Admitting we made mistakes is not supporting the enemy, as the enemy is those mistakes as long as we continue to make them. We must fly our principles higher than our pride, as without our Priciples we are left with only shame.
Vote for peace, vote for America as a good neighbor. Vote against Bush.
Bush is only getting another 4 years, at best. As our highly trained, highly motivated volunteer Army is going to continue to be tied up in Afghanistan and Iraq, that means it cannot be sent elsewhere in sufficent mass to matter. How is Bush going to continue to be a bad neighbor? Whenever he has tried economically to be a bad neighbor by employing tariffs, the EU (amoung others) has struck back and forced him to abandon protecting those industries lobbies (Steel comes immediately to mind). When he has tried to tighten up the inspections crossing the Mexican-American border, Mexico has struck back by stopping all commercial crossings from America into Mexico (forcing those American commercial firms to pressure him to lighten up). It is easy to find examples of how, wherever Bush's Administration has been a "bad" neighbor, our inter-dependance on each other has acted like a check on such behavior and forced the Administration to alter its course.
A vote against Bush is siding with every terrorist organization in the world that has bothered to state a position. Go check it out. Hamas has endorsed John Kerry. Various branches of Al-Quada have endorsed John Kerry. Heck, the IRA has endorsed John Kerry, and stated that if Britain had more politicians like him around, they'd have 'won outright', and not had to "settle". John Kerry's official policy for your national security is to return to the policies as their were in the Clinton Administration (and those that predated it). That is, 'once a particular individual has commited a crime', to pursue them to the ends of the earth. But until they cross that line from 'hypothetical conspirator' to 'committed crimal', to not take action against them. A purely law enforcement matter and policy (it's what we had in place since before Kerry first became a senator).
That's being a good neighbor. You wait until the crazed fanatic next door breaks into your house, kills you wife, and rapes your dog, before you take action against them.
From a philosphical point of view, I have difficulty arguing against it. Until you break the law, you are innocent, even if you "Talk about it" and "hypothetically plan out how you'd do it (realistically, for a movie or book)". But, from that same philosophy, every person respects every other person's right to live as they choose, and allows them to live their lives unharmed (their part of the SocialContract). When someone doesn't play by the same rules, that's where the problem lies. Domestically, that's why we have a PoliceForce... to force the non-compliant to behave in a fashion (at lease while the PoliceForce is nearby) that we find acceptable.
Bush isn't playing that game. He's acting the "Daddy", trying to step in before the neighbor busts in. Again, that isn't being a good neighbor. It is being pragmatic, cynical, or self-serving (depending on your POV). Again, Bush has stated that he understand's that's the primary duty of the US President, as was made clear to him on 9/11.
Is it being a bad neighbor? To others that don't trust you, most certainly. But those that do trust us, knows that Bush would never send his knee-breakers into their house. And many of them back that attitude (and send their knee-breakers along with Bush's... Cooperative Behavior for the betterment of all. A very WikiWorld concept). The UK, who has dealt with significant terrorism throughout the past '2 centuries', who has effectively and ineffectively fought/made peace with such, support it. Germany, who has had serious terrorism problems since at least post-WW2, supports the 'policy'. (Indeed, the German Government is not happy about the Bush, but their Prime Minister has endorsed him. Not the "Good Neighbor". Why do you think that is?)
The problem isn't a one sided issue. It isn't a matter that America stops being a punk on the world stage, and every whacko and jerk out there will suddenly start loving us. That is never going to happen. Other nations will continue to hate America because they aren't America. It really is as simple as that. UsAndThem. Before 9/11, most Americans thought that they could simply ignore the world, because it doesn't trouble us. Now, many American people are still coming to terms with the fact that America isn't rock hard safe. It seems to be the same sort of shock many go through who move to California or Japan and experience their first very scary (and physically dangerous) earthquake. A constant of their universe is no longer a constant, but a variable.
I live in a state where I regularly have to dodge tornadoes. I'm used to the environment being dangerous and deadly on a fairly regular basis. We have our own brand of domestic terrorists around here that have since post-Civil War, have been using violence, torture, death, and high explosives to try to convince us locals of the error of our ways and life styles. They've been ignored, but they've certainly killed more then 1000 US service men and women since that "Trouble" has begun. They've killed more US civilians then poor Iraqi civilians have died under Occupation. But strangely, I don't hear anything in either campaign about it. Nor from the general US Public.
JimScarver, you didn't say how you think we need to be better neighbors. You just said <RAINMAN VOICE> "Bush bad. Yeah, Bush very, very bad." </RAINMAN VOICE>. If you think that, what about it is bad? Who should the American Administration be working hard to make up with? If the Administration has been bad... what Administration has been "good"? Washington's? The US Government has been a bad neighbor since at least the 1800s. Changing one man and his hand picked advisors at the top is not going to change that. Only China and India becoming superpowers and better markets will (IMO). I'd be glad to vote for someone with a real Vision for moving us forward, but a vote for Kerry isn't that either. It is a vote for "More of the Same". Have you examined Kerry's web site? Much of his "Future directions" is lifted directly from Bush. Kerry promises "More of the same, but better executed".
Kerry won't be a good neighbor unless he implements his talking point to put America under the rule of the UN. He's stated that any American sacrifice made for America is purely a waste of flesh, but any and all America sacrifices made for the UN isn't, and that no sacrifice of the American people would ever be too great in the service of the UN. Wow. That's quite big of him. For an organisization of tyrants that just want to keep their people oppressed, and everyone else out of their borders and business. Support the tyrants of the world==== Only do what they agree we can do! ====
Do you think it matters to the citizens of a country if an American Trooper is wearing a blue hat or a khaki one? Or that their jeeps are camo or white with a big blue UN on it? They still see it as Americans doing it. Heck, the UN is viewed as a UN organ throughout most of the world. Why? Because America pays the most into it (we foot its bills), and because we loan it the most troops.
So... what's being a good neighbor? Sending powdered milk, pork, and wheat to the Sudan, but letting the Arab militias sieze it, burn the powdered milk and pork, and then, resupplied, continue their genocide, while all other efforts to provide aid to the suffering humans there is blocked in the UN?
I'm curious... what is being a good neighbor? How 'exactly' should the American Administration, which ever comes into power (now and in the future), do to be a good neighbor? What will cause the jealous, the whacked, and the hateful to go "Oh, Americans are God's chosen tool to help us improve our life===="? I do not see any such path. If there is one, I'd love to know it so I can try to pressure my elected representatives to act in such a fashion. Peace through cooperation and mutual respect is certainly better then building "Fortress America" and sending out hit squads to kill the dangerous. ====
When do the people of the world love America the most? When we do what we do. When we knock off the local warlord so ====MacDonalds can pay local people to raise beef cattle for cheap hamburger patties. They like us getting rid of the local bully 'and' giving them jobs that pay them something. Later, their children (and religious leaders who are losing dominion over their people) will hate us for raping their land, destroying their environment and culture... but their parents will still love us, for they remember that we did help them. Strangely, this mirrors an often seen path when you help abused people out of their abusive situations, and then remain in contact with them. They first love you, then later hate and resent you, because they don't feel like your equal as a human being. Is that your fault? Does that make you a bad neighbor? Eventually, as they work out their personal issues and their self-worth improves, this hatred and resentment of you dimishes, until they return to once again caring greatly for you, as you helped when others wouldn't. ====
It's only where we knock down the local power structure and then jump out that they hate us. That's because we made their life worse (power vacuum means next set of bully boys fight over who is new top dog) and that all bad stuff that follows is therefore our fault. They hate us when our tourists visit their lands and presume they should live like, act like, and talk like us. They hate us for Hollywood, and how it only makes movies and stories from our spoiled little view of "how life should be".
We aren't hated because an American destroyer occasionally uses their ports or an American jet flies near their lands. We are hated because we are "Them"|. Groups made of people still behave and react as a human does. Indeed, groups of people act according to the lowest common demoninator. You know... CollectiveStupidity.
I don't see Kerry raising the IQ of the Administration when he has promised "More of the same, but better executed" when his plans have been challenged ("What are your plans once you get elected, Senator Kerry?" "The same as Bush's, only done better with less screw ups====" to quote one exchange between Kerry and reports from when he was campaigning). ====
Either Kerry is going to do like Bush, only better, or he isn't. If you believe what Kerry has said the most often (and what he has published for his future plans), then this is the logical viewpoint... Kerry will do just like Bush, but make less mistakes doing so. That means to me, he'd be an even worse bad neighbor (as he's more efficent at it).
Now, if Kerry is going to do things different, then a vote for him is truly a vote for the change of direction. A change does mean that at least, there is the possibility of the American administration undergoing a real change in how it acts and treats the world. But as no past change at the top has achieved it, I'm not inclined to believe Kerry's Administration's Leadership will achieve it. That's my cynacism about government and its behavior, and I recognize it. I just don't see how a man who couldn't bother to change it through his 20 years in the Senate (a very strong leadership potential on American government) is going to stick with it and change the extended American Administration in a mere 4.
Plus, he dissed the space program. So me no votie for him. =-)
In 4 years, we will get a geniune choose between 2 different new leaders of America. Until then, I'll be voting for the guy that thinks we should be working at getting out into space then the one that says we shouldn't ever bother. Again, you feel Bush represents a strike against the future. I feel the opposite. Bush offers one more stepping stone to the galaxy at large, while Kerry offers to delay us for at least the next 4 (maybe 8) years.
In the grand scheme of things, Bush being a "bad neighbor" for 4 more years won't matter. Al-Qada's leadership has already begun to beg for a truce that allows them to save face and survive. If it crumbles in the next 4 years, the world is going to decide you don't ever challenge the Americans militarily, even using proven "New Doctrine" techniques. But you can and do challenge them to give people potable drinking water, safety from basic street crinimals, and basic electrical service. And they will always fail. In the long run, the failure to give the Iraqi people what they expect (the American living standard) is going to hurt us much greater in the eyes of the world then any action involving bullets. Neither choice of a candidate has a plan to improve that, you know. Maybe if we all vote in [[ JimScarverForPresident | Jim |]] though? =-)
And not for either clown.
Cool==== We need more choices! 2 is not enough! =-) ====
Did you vote for [[ JimScarverForPresident | Jim |]]? :-D
Hope you voted Libertarian. Everyone else wants to take away my guns.
It’s all talk. It’s all what you want to hear. Repeat, its all what you want to hear. Nothing will change no matter who wins. If anything does change, it will revert with the next winner. I hear the lies from both parties and I see some of you buy into them. That’s what the parties want. They want you to pay attention to unreasonable and irresolvable promises. And anything that may be reasonable is filtered from focus with mass media, paid for by those who have interest in obscuring changes. Why? Because change can cause unpredictable results in the pockets of investors. But its nice to see a good voter turn out.
StarPilot, maybe its time for the space program to be privet. Spend less money and make a profit. Here is what you do. Find a good cause, Using PayPal Sell raffle tickets at 10, 20, or 100 bucks a pop for a flight into space, or down payment for one. Anyone can do this, but the first to be /. will be the winner. Or if you can paten and license this idea. I am just to lazy to do the foot work on this one. Some one will do it. Maybe some one who reads this.
BobScarver, Why did you not join the military. hypocritter.
Who do you fear? These guys are pretty scarry. http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/
Good question, As you may recall, in the late 70’s and early 80’s I was anti-war, and a proactive anti-hunter tearing down tree stands and peeing all over hunters areas. Anti-logging, removing valve stems form logging equipment tires, even announcing to my girlfriends’ parents that I would escape to Canada if drafted. Bet ya they thought I was a keeper. I would kick my ass if I met then me now. I did always like guns though.
Our childhood was shaped by the winding down of the Vietnam War and growing up with JimScarver, things we did not and could not understand. The nightly news death toll is one of my earliest memories. Don’t know but now I love venison and I wish I did enlist... Need some wood?
Is this some kind of schyzophrenic nightmare? At first I thought it was the name of a Taliban Leader. Then I got wise and clicked on it.
One name representing three people. Hmmm.....
That's just plain stange.
Don't you think so, Travis or, uh, JohnScarver , or Karen or whoever it is I'm talking to?
KaJoTra, don't you worry much about it. NASA is now starting to contract with private industry to plot out certain things... like getting Scaled Composites and SpaceDev to develop their own craft and take over supplying the ISS. So the Shuttle won't need to, and so they don't have to pay the Russians government prices to do so.
There is a problem with having private industry do things... and that is, as a rule, they really don't do the basic research or ground breaking exploration (in research or real geo-physical space). Do you know who is doing all the actual exploring for new resources for us? NASA. And it then turns that info about new resources over to commercial interests for them to go exploit that. Why? Because NASA isn't in the business of making a profit. It is, however, into politics, and having the world's oil, mining, and other major industries owe you can be a powerful tool at the right time.
The only way to get commerce into space is to waste tons of money via basic government research. Figuring out how to get there, how to get there better and cheaper (and then, not implementing that because of how bueacracies work), and finding very large profit opportunities for industry. Then, the government foots the bill to get them going and off the ground. This really is the traditional way capitalism expands into new environments... on the back of the taxpayer and under the wayward guide of the government. Once it gets established though, it will scream about getting the government out of the way and out of its business. It's how it goes, but I don't care as long as we get there. And we will get there, eventually, unless we just give up and stop trying.
Looks like trouble in paradise.
Will the Netherlands will join the coalition?
Once again its a memeber from outside the culter talking about what others should do. Yes its nasty abuse, but it won't change until the change comes from with in.
The boston tea party was not encouraged by some other nation. Civil rights was not started by some other nation. The middle east was always manipulated by other nations. If we left them alone, they would kill them selve. If anyone bring up WWII, yes the nazi's came from with in. Don't forget the nazi's were anti communists,lower class, and had what they thought was a valid reson to do what they did. They were sold the idea of who to blame for the problems of that day. And so was America with Natives, Slaves, and Culturel repression.
Bin L. is selling a prophacy which may turn up fullfilled. Going bankrupt while invading a mid east nation or two or three or more.
The people spoke for W., because he was a better name caller. Blanket statements for complex issues he knows nothing about feeds hungry ego's, who seem to generlize all the ansews. Yes the election was a "no brainer". And thats who we are.
Though its funny manhattan ground zero voted for JK.
I think JohnScarver just called Bush supporters stupid. Um, must have read that wrong. Let me check again…. Yep. He did.
The stupid people of the world are those who refuse to accept responsibility for themselves and those who promote dependency. Subsets are people who expect government handouts and those who will exploit to them. As long as a culture of personal responsibility remains, bankruptcy is not on the horizon, not on radar, not even detectable by satellite surveillance. A lack of personal responsibility is the only thing that can kill this country.
New York is a Democratic given. It is worth noting that people in the know like X-New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and Ed Koch (opposing parties) are strong supporters and advocates of Bush’s anti-terrorism policies.
Joy==== The networks can now report good news from Iraq. ====
Tom Daschle is no more.
The senate log jam is broken.
Trial lawyers have been defeated.
Tort reform begins.
The proof is in the pudding......
The reason that JohnScarver called Bush's supporters stupid is because, in general, they are......
National education rankings (by state):
Bush won 8 of the lowest ten, while Kerry won 8 of the top ten on this list. Bush also won the states with the highest high school dropout rates==== ====
I know lots of very intelligent Bush supporters, though. And let's face it, most Americans aren't very bright. We have been falling behind the rest of the world for the past 30 years==== Clearly, the candidate with bible-carrying, klan-member inbred hillbilly vote won! So who's stupid now? ====
I have already claimed insufficient intelligence, but we all know who ran the smarter campaign.
To confirm my stupidity I will repeat myself with an underlying, slightly adapted, theme of the Bush and J.F.K campaigns, "exploiting and promotong a culture lacking personal responsibility is the only thing that will bankrupt this country." Nazi’s blame Jews is clear cut example.
Thats John F. Kennedys' campaign.
I didn't call bush supporters stupid. I may have said "we" are stupid. And that is my point. The blanks are filled in with what you want to hear. You are always all ready listening to what you expect to hear.
Now the church will be at rule and will take responsibility for us. There will be no more evolution taught. Biology will omit sex. Christian religion will be required for public school. All other religions will be considered barbaric and not God like. Redistricting has already been taking place so we will never half to worry about evil liberals again. We won’t have to worry about evil gay couples being married. Our children will be free to buy automatic weapons of mass destruction and blow up evil government building. Every one will abstain from sex till they are married and we wont have anymore poor single woman with children. Of course all the men will be dead from war or will be in prison for three strikes. But that’s what we have churches for. So we can build community and teach each other how to take care of others in need. As long as the ones in need believe the same way.
W was very creative for being able to convey a message of hope for those who may not have had enough faith to begin with. He said what supporters wanted to hear him say. J.K. did the same but the swings don’t want to hear the bull. W forced JK in a corner and the bull war began. But even the swing was weak to ignore hearing what they did not want to hear. W is very creative in mob rule.
BinL prophecy of us being assertive Christian culture may be enough to encourage more violence. Let us pray not.
Dear JohnScarver, I pray that you will start using spell check==== ====
With love, brother BobScarver
G, you call me stupid. It's all fixed now. Is it better now? And by the way, when did you start praying against your atheistic view points? Was there something you learned here or are you just being as inconsistent as the rest of us?
I started praying when I thought John Kerry might have half a chance of becoming president.
The Klan endorsed John Kerry. He has admitted to regularly going to their meetings (to get their votes and money).
The Klan is strongest in the large cities that voted for Kerry. You want to find racism, head for the Blue states. Its open and its rampant, and its spreading there. The concentrations of people is where the most ignorance survives best, and spreads best.
You want inbred? That's everyone whose family has lived in the US since before 1960s. The "old money" are especially inbred, what with all the marrying of first cousins well into the 1950s. But, just for your education... we are all "inbred". There is only this one world to draw partners from. Science has traced our human ancestory back to 3 "Eves". As everyone is descended from just those 3 first women, we are all cousins.
A message of 'HATE' and 'ANGER' will never, ever, bring people around to how you think if they don't already think that way==== So why do you keep using such terms to try and communicate with others? Wouldn't it be more sociable for you to find some game and take that frustration out on some innocent aliens trying to take over the galaxy? And once that tension and stress is gone, re-examine how to better communicate your ideas and why your world view is so much better that others should adapt it for themselves? ====
Iranian students expressed their satisfaction on the outcome of the US Presidential elections.
Thanks New York Times for confirming what we already knew. ABC, CBS, CNN and NBC are in the back pocket of the DNC.
Skim down to - The critical moment came at 12:41 a.m.-
The election is history and President Bush has the clear mandate to pursue his vision of America and to continue to shape the character of the world wide war on terror. The candidates are no more and the relevance of discussing them as such is diminished. I propose a new discussion based on tracking our pre-election predictions of what would or would not happen if Bush became president. For example, “World War Three”-JimScarver, or “the world does not and will not hate America”-me. It may be instructive for us to take responsibility for our ranting and track how they pan out. Any takers?
Iranian students desire democracy in Iran
France defends its citizens and interests. French commentators call for withdrawal? Must be the same ones claiming the U.S. should not protect its interests.
Click if you dare.
Trouble in Canada.
We are stuck with Bush for another four years. In one sence he has already damaged the reputation of America as much as it is possible to do so. I suppose he cannot do much more damage.
I can't believe intelligent people think the world just loves the US unilateral intervension in their affairs. I have been to latin america and europe. I have seen the hatred for american imperialism. I have seen the love of Castro and others for standing up against America. At NJIT I have worked with students from around the world. Sure they love our money and life style. But our constant blunders in out covert military actions are universally hated. I feel sorry for those that deny that. They are not in touch with reality.
I also feel sorry fopr those who paint Carry as a pinko commy libral that would have runed America. He has a proven record of acomplesment that exeplifies byparticin leadership. There is nothing radical in his viewpoints or actions. The fact that some feared him is a tryumph for the reactionary right that is beyong logic or reasoning. America has been dupped.
World war three is comming. Bush has toned down his rambo america, we can do anything we want no matter what anybody says attidude a bit, so it may not come in during his reign. I am praying that the next president can undue some of the damage George has done to the US image and perhaps avoid the war. But as long as America want to be the bully of the world, as shown by thier vote, we are doomed.
I was able to ignore all this over-simplified babble from both sides for a while. That was until StarPilot said that the Klan is running rampant in the cities. Have you ever been to a city? I live in New York City. You know, the place that ACTUALLY gets attacked by terrorists. The Klan is not running rampant, nor is it something that any one here has even seen before. I would like to see some document or source for your claim about the Klan. Unless, of course, you are talking about the Wu-Tang clan. The Wu-Tang clan is in fact running rampant through the streets of New York.
I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed on both sides of this argument. JimScarver seems to be trying to use the oversimplification tactics at which the republican strategists are so adept. Jimbo, it's not working. You're sounding as ridiculous as the repubs. Conservative friends, I agree that Bush ran a better campaign. I'm disappointed that he won, but I don't think the world will end. Let's forget about John Kerry for now, but I want to know what you think about the rising deficits. Congress is working on raising the debt ceiling for this country. If we can, for one moment at least, have an honest debate about this, it might be really helpful. As conservatives, are you troubled by our growing debts? I'm more centrist than liberal, and I have to say, it is hypocrises like this that make it very hard for me to support the Republicans.
Well, for actual data, you should start consulting the Klan membership databases. They are growing in the major metro areas. Other racial and anti-racial watch groups agree that racism is again growing, not shrinking, JimLong. As are other racial oriented groups (like the Black Panthers, etc). The social scientists generally acredit that to a growing ignorance (more HS drop outs), gang, and general human "tribalism" tendacies. You know, that's part of the UsAndThem that is so often discussed here.
As for antedotal... I've lived in Boston (Mass) for about 1/3 my life (at different points in my life). I was born in Huntsville, Alabama (and have spent considerable time living here). Just so you know, Huntsville is rated one of the least "racially oriented" cities in the USA by several organizations that track such a thing (using various metrics such as percentage of minorities going to college, employed (and by what profession), amount of minorities prosecuted by the local legal system (as percentage), etc etc etc ). Oddly enough, when I met new people while living in Boston, or while working or vacationing in NYC, Detroit, Chicago, DC, Atlanta, Reston, or Baltimore, to name a few, a great many times, people presumed I was a Klan member when they found out I was from Alabama. Surprising to me, a very sizable minority of the whites would invite me to the local Klan or White Power rally. And a majority of the non-whites would get mad at me, for being "an ignorant Klan hick from the South". I'd blow off the people inviting me to white rallies (I hate bigots), and most of the time I'd try to educate the others (when they'd permit me) about how I come from an area that pre-judges people based on their (presumed) income brackets, not where their ancestors came from. Socially speaking, Huntsville is predominantly a rich human versus poor human oriented area.
If I want to find a bigot, I head for large metro areas, where there's enough of a particular niche of people to form a tribe and have minimal interactions with other "tribes". Where you find tribalism, you find bigotry. There, you will find "(whatever) power" groups to help preserve that tribe against the others. Wherever tribalism is growing, you will find a rise in those tribalism support groups.
I'm human. That means, that I do initially judge people on silly things (for me, its how people talk. The old pattern matcher between my ears at work, trying to build an understanding of someone but using erroneaous data to start the mental modelling). But I never stop listening. Why? Because I know that the worth of a human is in how they treat others, and what is in their brain that they are willing to share with their fellows.
I haven't been to a majority of places in this world. I haven't interacted with the majority of people in this world. But I have been up and down the East Coast, from Maine to Florida. And from that, I've seen that people are people. In places where various groupings of people interact frequently with other groupings of different people, they tend to view each other as simply human (same as them). In places where that interaction doesn't happen or happens very infrequently (such as small towns and very large metros), very often they don't go on what they know about themselves (and therefore presume it is true of all others). They go on what little they've ever heard about "those people" from sources they trust (regardless of how truly trustworthy or scientific that source may be).
P.S. Oh... I remember the WTC and Pentagon attacks. A couple of old friends and former co-workers of mine were lost in that in those events. I wasn't still emotionally close to them, but it did emphasis just how small a world we live in to me. However, 9/11 isn't the only terrrorist attack to happen in the USA. We've had our own local and national terrorists problems, such as the blowing up of churches and clinics, and the kidnapping, torturing, and killing of our citizens, since at least before the Civil War. Perhaps you should take a better look around and learn further of the wacko groups, struggling to protect your body, soul, or bloodline from the temptations of Satan or the evil works of the wicked racelings? And of course, we now have those completely anti-Human groups who are trying to prevent abuse of fish by blowing up fishermen and their boats.
- $405 billion (23%) Social Security payments
- $328 billion (18%) Medicare/Medicaid payments
- $215 billion (12%) interest on the National Debt
- $226 billion (13%) other ‘mandatory’ payments
- $262 billion (15%) national defense
- $330 billion (19%) other ‘discretionary spending
- $900 billion (48%) individual income taxes
- $637 billion (34%) social insurance (FICA)
- $189 billion (10%) corporate income taxes
- $157 billion (8%) other taxes & duties
Without National Defence no other number matter.